Raising kids in a digital world

An interview with Dr. Kristy Goodwin, Digital Wellbeing Speaker and Author.

Raising Kids in a Digital World

An interview with Dr. Kristy Goodwin, Digital Wellbeing Speaker and Author.



Understanding how to raise our kids as well-rounded, healthy, and happy beings in a digital world can feel overwhelming, even scary for parents. It is the first time in history that our kids may just know more than us about this area. In this episode, Angela speaks with Dr. Kristy Goodwin, author of Raising Your Child in a Digital World, Australia's leading digital wellbeing and productivity speaker about how parents can work with their kids to develop positive tech habits without compromising their physical, mental and social wellbeing.

Episode Transcription 



Dr. Kristy Goodwin's Book: Raising Your Child in a Digital World


parents   digital   child   kids  s creen   kristy   brain   conversations   world   important   hearing   devices   natural   sunlight   technology   spent   years   life   behaviors   habits   digital   devices



Angela: Welcome to A Kid's Life Podcast. I'm Angela Lockwood. And today I am feeling a little bit selfish. I do have to admit because I have invited a guest on here who I have always wanted to speak with. Her name is Dr. Kristy Goodwin, she is one of Australia's leading digital well-being and productivity speakers. She knows her stuff because she's been helping organizations like Apple, Macquarie Bank, Randstad, Foxtel, and a whole range of others, to better understand the impact technology is having on employees' mental well being, physical health, and productivity. But the reason she's on here is she also works with parents, schools, and the health industry, in the area of technology for children. And this is such an area I'm passionate about, I'm so interested in and I want to pick her brain really deeply today. So I'm going to have to be mindful of time. She also authored the book, Raising your Child in a Digital World, which is so important. And if you haven't read it, I do suggest that you access that book. And she's also worked as an educator for 14 years in school. So she's seen so many different aspects of working with children. She's also a university lecturer, and also has a Ph.D. in the impact of digital technologies. Ha, can you see why I want her on here? I've invited Dr. Kristy here, she's gonna help us better understand the digital world for our kids, which sounds like a huge promise in a short period of time, but I'm sure we're just going to scratch the surface. And when to look a little bit deeper. I was also into how technology impacts physical health, mental well-being, and focus, but also dispel some of the myths around this as well. So, Dr. Kristy Goodwin, I am so excited to have you here and welcome to A Kid's Life podcast.


Kristy: Thank you, Angela. And your listeners won't be able to tell that I am blushing. That's such a lovely genuine introduction. So thank you for having me. I'm hoping we can debunk some of the myths and misconceptions and help parents understand their screenagers. I often refer to our kids as screenagers. Because it really is such a different world that we're all living in now. This you know very few aspects of our personal and professional lives where the digital tentacles haven't sort of crept into. So it is all-pervasive, but it's not going away. So we need to try and find the best ways to live with it. Rather than trying to go on what I call admission for digital amputation, because that just doesn't work.


Angela: I do have to admit, Kristy, you do have some amazing phrases. I've heard you speak, I've watched your work, you have some of that, like a digital amputation. And I would encourage you to use as many of those in our conversation. Because it allows us, parents, to really hold on to and sort of have a better understanding of what that means digital imputation it's perfect, you can, you can understand what that would mean. So please.


Kristy: I'll tell you what it means. If you've ever tried like as a parent, if you've ever tried to remove your child's digital appendage, i.e. their phone, their tablet, their gaming console, what you are doing is often causes a techno tantrum, there's another little term for you. And we know that this is not necessary and we can dive into one of the common myths here is that often parents certainly, and we use this as a throwaway term, say my child's addicted or my teens addicted, they can't put down and insert their digital appendage. But the research actually tells us that very few children or teenagers would actually have a clinical addiction. What most kids and teens and adults, if we're really honest, would have is some problematic digital habits and behaviors. And it sounds like just a change in the phrase. But it's not because when we label someone with a, you know, very medically loaded word like saying they're addicted, we almost abdicate responsibility and say, Well, you know, they're addicted, there's nothing I can do about it right, or, you know, I can't do very much. Whereas if we look at it more from some problematic behaviors, then we can start to shift and adjust their digital habits and behaviors and make some changes rather than just saying problems because I'm what I can manage.


Angela: What a fantastic place to start. Because that sense of responsibility as parents is so important. And this definitely is not about guilt for parents or parents that are listening. If you're like, oh my gosh, I've said that my child's addicted, or I've said these things that Kristy just mentioned, it is not about guilt, because I know through my work with parents that we are all experiencing the same overwhelm when it comes with our digital habits, our digital habits and our kids' digital habits.


Kristy: Can I just kind of jump in there, I'm sorry to interrupt. I think what you touched on is really pertinent because I think as parents, we have to give ourselves some great there's no rulebook, there's no guidebook or playbook about how you parent in this digital world. For most of us as modern parents, our frame of reference was analog childhoods and adolescence. We stare at the sky not at a screen, we spend time with people not with pixels. But today, research tells us by the time the average Australian child celebrates the eighth birthday, they've spent the equivalent of one full year of their life with digital technologies. So you're raising kids in a completely digitally saturated world. And we've got no frame of reference, the only digital dilemma that my Mom faced was what television show I could watch. And it was usually one television channel on the one TV set that lived in the lounge room. But now screens have become omnipresent. They're on the station, at least at school in many instances. And so it's really hard for parents, and I think we need to acknowledge that we're all looking around at each other, and often say, Well, how are you navigating this digital terrain? So I think we need to have a much more open and more nuanced conversation, I think we need to eradicate, as you said, the techno guilt and the techno shame, parent bashing, or I call it shooting, I really try to avoid choking on parents, I think we get chewed on all the time. But instead, I think what we need to do is to empower parents to make educated, informed decisions. And that's where I'm biased, but I'm fascinated with how our brain and body operate. And I think it's really hard to argue with neuroscience and psychology. So I look at what do we know, how do the brain and body operate in the digital landscape? And how can we apply that knowledge to this digital world? So I just want to reiterate that parents shouldn't feel guilty. You know, for most of us, we didn't have these digitalized childhoods. And so that means it's the very first time in all of history, where generation of kids, maybe even your three-year-old, or four-year-old, but a generation of young people know far more about a topic than what their parents, their caregivers and their teachers do. And this is why we've got problems. We've got parents that are saying, I don't know what to talk he is, so they're asking for this fortnight I think it is. And so because we don't have the digital language, we often say, Hang on, I'm not sure how to navigate this terrain. And that's why I say to parents, go back to what you do have, we've got the brain architecture that your child irrespective of their technical prowess just doesn't have. So we need to stop that shaming because when, when we have this shame and guilt, we don't have these open conversations.


Angela: And does that make it really hard for parents to sort of it feel like we're handing over control a little bit I would imagine for some parents is to go, I don't know this stuff. So, therefore, I guess it's either scary. So I don't want to deal with it. Or I'll jump in with misinformation. Do you find that with parents that it is almost a scary space to be in at the moment?


Kristy: And as even as someone who researches this, I find this space, you know, it's a completely moving landscape. The platforms and the apps and the tools and the technologies are constantly evolving and changing. And there's something in the research field called the penetration rate. And the penetration rate describes how many years it takes a technology to penetrate to 50 million global users. So the internet when we used to dial-up can remember the delayed gratification skills we demonstrate while you hit the two-digit digit magic kids had waited for that today. Well, that took about 13 years until 50 million people globally adopted it. Facebook took four years, YouTube took two years, Angry Birds took 35 days, Pokemon Go, do you remember when that was the trend?


Angela: Unfortunately, yes.


Kristy: It took one to two days to reach 50 million global users. And so this is why you know, in recent years, we've had the death by suicide that was streamed on social media platforms, we've had all sorts of challenges and inappropriate content that are shared. And so parents are looking around saying how it just can't keep up. And so that's why I say to parents, your job in this digital landscape is to be the pilot, or if you've got adolescents be the co-pilot of the digital plane. And you need to be in the driver's seat in the passenger pilot's seat with your child as well. Because when they get digital turbulence, when they see something inappropriate, when they're a victim of catfishing or cyberbullying, when they see pornography, violence, scary content, you can help them to course correct. If you're way back in economy class, and they are in the pilot's seat, they don't have the brain architecture to navigate it and they end up crashing the plane. So yes, the likelihood is that your child will know far more about the technology, but they don't have the corresponding brain architecture to deal with it. And you do. And so you've got life experience, you've catastrophe scale, you've got hindsight, that will stand you in very good stead to navigate this digital terrain, even if your technical price may not be as competent.


Angela: You mentioned earlier around the neuroscience that sort of backs all of this. Why is it important for parents to understand the impact of neuroscience and how it leads to all of this?


Kristy: Again, I have a very biased view here. I think our understanding of the brain is critical to understanding us as humans. You know, it was what makes us unique. It's what makes us tick. And again, it's good hard science I'm cautious Kristy. So I like to fall back on what do we know? Or do we know for sure? And it's really hard to argue with neuroscience, neuroscience gives us a very clear, fairly predictable trajectory in terms of what developmental milestones we should make, and what children should make. And again, I'm acknowledging there are some children who are neurodivergent. And they meet different milestones at different rates. But generally speaking, neuroscience helps us to understand the I call it our neurobiological blueprint, we basically come with an operating manual removal minister actually have a hard copy printed, they bring send those annoying discs when you buy anything new now, or you just go to a URL and download your manual. But when we had an operating manual, this tells us how we operate. And for our kids, we know that their prefrontal cortex, so the part of the brain that helps them with problem-solving, good decisions, I often say it's their CEO, or the air traffic control system of their brain, the prefrontal cortex isn't fully developed. And in fact, it doesn't develop until the early 20s for females, and light 20 males, this part of the brain helps them with this self-regulation or impulse control. If your child doesn't have impulse control, give them a powerful digital tool that can take photos that can send nasty messages that can Google inappropriate words. These are very vulnerable to some of the potential pitfalls. And it doesn't matter how many conversations you've talked to your son or daughter about, you know, taking appropriate photos, writing kind comments online, they don't have that self-regulation center regulated. So when we understand that it again, it exemplifies just what critical role parents play. And again, understanding that that part of the brain often switches off at night seats worked hard, especially at school day, you know, trying to keep it together and listen to my teacher and stop wiggling, you know, that impulse control center is absolutely depleted at the end of the day. And at nighttime, their limbic brain, so they're particularly their amygdala, which is their emotional hub, fires up. This is why most cyberbullying takes place at night, their logical brain is turned off, and their amygdala or emotional brain is turned on. So when we understand this, again, we can start to put in place some strategies, you know, maybe it's limiting the use of social media at night, maybe it's keeping and I suggest this trying to keep digital devices in centrally located spots in the house, keeping them out of bedrooms, having a digital curfew, you know, cut off time where devices go on what I call a landing zone, a designated spot. But understanding that brain science really helps us to then figure out how we operate in this digital world we're in.


Angela: So there were some really amazing strategies and very simple strategies that you just talked about them. So if I can just recap a couple was things like not having devices in bedrooms, having a digital curfew, having a landing space in your home where everybody can have their devices. I think they're all such important tools. And I know, in my work with parents, I often hear them say, oh, no, no, my child doesn't have a device in their room. I never allow that. But then you have a quick chat to the child and they're like, oh, is up to one o'clock at night, you know, on talking to someone my most alarming when I can remember a young girl in the five, telling me about this, this friend of hers, this German guy who she talks to after she goes to bed. Now I remember just hearing that go, what you're in the five, what are you doing? And I said, Do your parents know that? She said, Oh, no, they don't know I've got a device in my room. And so there's this whole sense of open communication I understand is really important with parents and kids and knowing what your kids are up to. And one of the things that I've heard you speak about a little bit is how much time kids spend on devices is not necessarily the thing we should be really focusing on. I find this fascinating. Can you tell us well, what should we be focusing on them?


Kristy: Okay, so I'm so glad you brought this up because I really believe that our having a narrow obsessional, focusing on time as our only metric really overlooks really important considerations when it comes to screen time. I'm not for a moment suggesting that we don't give kids limits, because we've all acknowledged as parents if we had let them have free rein they'd be probably tethered to technology most of the day. What I am suggesting is that we need to be having a more nuanced conversation, how the session how much time our kids are spending online is important in regards to what their time is displacing. So I often refer to this as the displacement or effect or the opportunity cost. So for every hour our child is sitting down watching YouTube videos or scrolling through TikTok or playing fortnight or Minecraft is an hour not spent playing outside, hanging upside down from trees, reading, chatting with their friends, doing fine motor skills and gross motor skills that we once did. And it's this opportunity cost that I think we really need to be focusing on. I say to parents, I think what we really need to be focusing on is what screen time is displacing what they are doing online, but though they're, I think, by far more important than just narrowly saying how much because what I have found working with a lot of parents, his parents say, No, my child meets the government's one hour of two hours of screen time, whatever their ages for private school children are two hours of recommended sedentary screen-based media a day. And before you guess that's not necessarily what I'm prescribing, but that's our current Australian guidelines. But when you dig a little bit deeper, and you figure out what were they doing with those two hours, was it an age-appropriate game? Was it leisure? Was it learning? Was that active as a passive? Were they creating a virtual world and interacting with their peers and problem-solving? Or were they just sitting there passively consuming TikTok video after TikTok video? So we need to be having those broader conversations. So I think the bigger question is, what is their time displacing? And that's why I say to parents, that's why you can come up with a really simple formula for how much time because when we think about the opportunity cost, we need to think about having our children's most basic physical and psychological needs being met. So if they're getting enough sleep, are they physically active? Are they playing? Are they hearing and using language? Are they getting enough sleep? Are all their vital developmental milestones being met? And if so then we could add in some screen time. But what's happening in most Australian households is that we start with an empty vessel for time. And what fills the vessel up first is screen time, all of a sudden, seeing some of those virtual skills, you know, kids that aren't getting enough sleep, who aren't physically active and who aren't playing, who don't have the language skills that they once had. And that is because of that opportunity cost.


Angela: Oh, I feel like I just want to jump through the screen and give you a hug right. Because my masterclass, if you're listening to this in March, is that I'm running the Parent Masterclass, is about helping your kids to love playing outside again. And I think that you know, play being an occupational therapist is such an important thing that my whole world is through play and having fun. And I even find it as a real struggle, as a parent and as a health professional working with kids to balance that I'm even seeing a lot of therapists that are coming into sessions now where a lot of their activities are on iPads. And, you know, a lot of devices are starting I feel to come into a lot of different aspects of our life, even, you know, with the lockdowns over the last couple of years online learning. And, you know, there's a lot of fun games I know, my son has to track he's, he's a part of a sporting sort of training program where they have to actually track what physical activity they're doing during the day. So you know, it's a physical activity being tracked through an app site, you just see this filtering through all aspects of our lives. As a parent. Firstly, for our listeners, what are some of the things that parents really should look for to just some of the behaviors that their children might be exhibiting? If it's getting a little bit too much for them? You know, that is not necessarily the time but what are the behaviors that parents should be looking at going hang on, things might be getting a little tiny bit out of control here?


Kristy: Yeah. And I'm happy to answer those. I just wanted to pick up on what you were saying. I've talked about green time. So time outside in nature is so important to balance screen time. And we've got some good evidence that's telling us that children need at least two hours of natural sunlight spread throughout the day doesn't have to be a two-hour stint outside, but accumulative, they need two hours in sunlight for a couple of reasons. One is that we've got new research telling us that can actually help prevent myopia, which is nearsightedness. Now, we thought we were seeing a spike. And we are definitely seeing a spike in rates of nearsightedness in children, teens, and adults. But it's not necessarily because we're looking at screens, it's because we are spending so much on tip screens, we're not getting the time that we used to have out in natural sunlight. And when we are outside, we develop that depth of vision naturally, you know, you have to look at the ball that's hurtling towards you or the tree in the distance. The other reason is that we need to get at least two hours and ideally we get it in the earlier part of the day, but two hours, the natural sunlight to help reset our circadian rhythms again, because of our increased blue light exposure, because of our time spent in front of laptops and tablets, and smartphones and a whole plethora of digital devices, we're being exposed to far more blue light than ever before. So circling back to what parents might need to look for if their kids have started into a sort of problematic areas. This is where it can become tricky because some of these diagnostic codes Tyria are also what we call typical stages of childhood or adolescent development. And so it's hard to sometimes disentangle, but some red flags that you might look for are that they need to use digital devices for increasing amounts of time to get the same levels of satisfaction. And you might start to see some deceitful behavior. So they start to lie about where they're going, or what they're doing, or what they're playing online, you might see a radical shift in their grades or attendance rates at school. And again, that doesn't necessarily mean that they're got a problematic behavior, you might see a radical shift in their behavior when they don't have access. I know for some families, when they went for a couple of days, in recent times, where they had no Wi-Fi access, no cellular data, their kids became physically aggressive. In some instances, kids became dysregulated, because they weren't getting their dose of digital, which can be a sign of withdrawal. So we can see these changes, changes in any relationships, changes in activities that they once enjoyed. And again, I'm not I keep repeating, these can just be normal stages of development. But if you have any of those sorts of red flags, particularly in terms of increasing amounts of time, which we bought tolerance, then coupled with some of those other red flags, it would be worthwhile seeking professional guidance. And there are now wonderful cyber psychologists, people who really work in this expert space. So there are a wealth of people that you can now get expert guidance from in that regard.


Angela: Well, I know all of your work that you do to Kristy is a space where parents can go for more information. And of course, on your website, we will link everything to it. But on your website, drkristygoodwin.com. And there are masterclasses on there, there are workshops for parents and teachers and also corporate spaces, which is interesting in itself. And I feel like I could speak to you about the corporate space a whole other time. But one of the things I often get asked by parents is the age at which children should be on social media, you know, we hear that 13 is the cutoff. And we all know that that's just a number. I see kids as young as in sort of year one doing the TikTok dances, it's so crazy. And you know, it's TikTok dances because, you know, everybody's doing the same thing. What age or how not necessarily the age because clearly, that's just a number. But how can parents know when it's a good time, not just for social media, but maybe for a device when their child is ready? How do parents know?


Kristy: So hope you don't think I'm dodging your question, but is just like it's hard to give an exact amount of screen time. It's actually really impossible to prescribe an exact age when kids are ready to be dunked in the digital stream. I say having spoken to 1000s of parents throughout the world, not just here in Australia, I have never, ever met one parent who has said to me, Kristy, I really regret holding out and delaying giving my child a screen or social media or access to a game. But I certainly have plenty of conversations for parents saying I wished I had paused, wished I had waited a little bit longer. Because once I gave them the phone, the app, the game, you know, the floodgates and you can't go back. And so I say to parents, I think in most instances, the legal age of 13 isn't necessarily when children are psychologically ready to cope with social media or having a phone or playing a particular game. Let's be honest, a lot of adults don't know how to behave respectfully and responsibly on social media platforms. 13 is actually when it's legal for tech companies to mine data from minors. That's the only reason we have 13 years of age for most games. Or so I say to parents where you can delay the introduction of screens delay the introduction of social media, but I'm also a mom to three kids who knows firsthand how prevalent pressure is. My 11-year-old almost 12-year-old son is convinced he's the only boy in all of Australia who doesn't have his first smartphone yet. He will soon get one, we're contemplating getting one closer to his 12 possibly his 13th birthday, but he's certainly in the minority. And so we've had conversations about these are the rules that we're having in our house. I have found that when you give kids facts when you give them science and reasons for your decision, they're much more amenable doesn't mean they necessarily like it and that's why I often say being that pilot of the plane or co-pilot of the digital plane, one of the things you've got to establish is you have to set boundaries and borders with your child. Not on them. It's not giving them an iPad contract or technology agreement. They don't work your child needs by him but when you can give them with their involvement, when you can set up these, I call them your digital guardrails, then your child understands why again, they're a bit like vegetables. I think kids need them. They'll never say they like them, and they want them, but they most certainly need them in their life. And so if we can give our kids those parameters, and give them reasons for why those strategies are in place without scaring them, you know, I don't want to say to my son, I don't want you to have a phone because I don't want you to see pornography, or I don't want unkind people messaging you. It's a delicate balance. But I think giving them the facts and science and in many instances falling back on the legal argument, you know, the age recommendation for this app is 13 years of age, you know, for every other rule, or law we uphold, but we'll break the rule on this one, that's a really hard moral standpoint to come back from. So I say where possible. And I say this in an empowering way to parents, you know, your children best if they lose their school lunchbox, if they cannot keep their school blazer for a whole term? Why on earth would you give them a 600, 700, 800, sometimes $2,000 device that they could potentially use whoops. So first of all, check that they're responsible, then look at their self-regulation skills, when you're giving them a phone or an app or game, you're giving them access to a global community, you're giving them access to a camera. So they have the skills and competencies that they have to navigate that. And then my last question is asking, do you have the time as a parent? No, I can barely manage my own social media. I entered the day I've got three sons. I dread the day when I'm still managing, looking, checking. And I encourage parents to do this digital audit with them. So do you have the time to help them because we'd never ever, ever throw kids into the water and just hope that they teach themselves? Just when? Why would we throw them into a digital landscape and just hope that they teach themselves we have to take the time. And it's a long road, you know, that prefrontal cortex many years to develop. So I hope I answered that you know, your child best, delay it as long as possible. But there are two key things there.


Angela: And what I love about listening to you, then it's not about understanding how to play Minecraft or you know, what all these games actually, you know, the rules of it all. And what happens it's actually first and foremost, what I'm hearing Kristy is that it's understanding your child and setting those boundaries as we do. Everything else that they do in their lives, the digital space doesn't have to be scary and overwhelming. It's about making that open connection and building trust with your child around this new thing that we're all navigating together. And I really appreciate you taking the time to go through that with us again, I could speak to you for days and days and days because you're such a wealth of knowledge and degrees DS also kindly offered to share a digital wellbeing checklist. And we will provide that link in the download in the show notes below the episodes and thank you for being so kind with what will parents be able to learn from that digital wellbeing checklist, Kristy when they download that.


Kristy: So first and foremost, I have created it as a PDF, you can print and put it on your fridge or put it above the study. Because I know as an adult, I suffer from digital dementia, I listen to podcasts. And that's a great idea or that's a good strategy. And then I forget it. I blame old age it's not old age, it's literally digital dementia, our memory-making skills are diminishing because I'll give you another word here we are suffering from info obesity, there is just so much information being thrown at us in this digital world that our memory-making capacity isn't necessarily shrinking, but its capacity and proportion to the information is just so insignificant. So having it there will help you it's basically really practical tips that you can apply to look after your child's physical health. So things like their vision, their hearing, their muscular-skeletal health when they are spending time online, how you can stop screens from sabotaging their sleep, how you can get screens to look after rather than hamper their mental well being so I've really practical sort of checklist items that you can say let's target this habit this week. And the idea is that they're little micro habits that founders can build on over time and hopefully develop some digital wellbeing skills in the process.


Angela: Perfect I've just signed up to it so if you see Angela Lockwood come up, I'm just doing it for a friend you know. I do think my favorite term that you've used throughout this whole chat is info obesity. Never heard it absolutely love it.


Kristy: I feel like that emoji now, the emoji with the headaches but I feel like if I was to pick an emoji-like picking a favorite kid had to do but we all deep down know we've got one every day my friend emoji at the moment is that exploded hit. I just feel like so many of us and it doesn't matter who I speak to, whether they're academic, a professional, you know, paraprofessional, a health professional, an educator, so many people are just feeling like this, just this constant barrage of digital distractions. You know, it's the WhatsApp message, your team's best phone calls, your reminders, your calendar alerts and notifications, the pings of things that have become the soundtrack of our day. And it's, I have said, getting worse. It's not getting better. And so that's where I think we've got to circle back to what we talked about, at the beginning, go back to WhatsApp, biological and neurobiological blueprint, we can't outperform our biology. So we've got to find smarter, better, more sustainable ways to operate in this digital world. So hopefully, that was a big promise, but will help give you some respite, the mental load?

Angela: Well, I know exactly where I'm going to start with my info obesity. But Kristy, thank you so much I knew having you on here would be such a valuable conversation to have and for all parents, you know, please take away that you're not doing any of this alone that, you know, talk to any parents. We're all trying to somehow navigate this. And thanks to people like yourself, Dr. Kristy Goodwin, you're helping to give us the facts and make trying to simplify what feels like an overwhelming space. But we're simple strategies, we can do this as parents, and we're just going to be really open with each other and go to leaders in the field like Kristy. So Kristy, thanks so much for joining me today. It's been such a delight, as always having a chat with you.

Kristy: Thank you, Angela. And thank you for what you're doing because we all know it takes a village to raise children. And now we've got this wonderful digital village where we can tap into people who can support families in Broadway. And I think that's a wonderful blessing for living in this modern age. So thank you and for all the work you do.

Angela: Thank you so much. I've been joined today on A Kid's Life Podcast with Dr. Kristy Goodwin. And to find out more about Dr. Kristy, just go to all the links at the bottom of the show notes and her digital platforms are over at www.drkristygoodwin.com. It's very easy to find where Dr. Kristy Goodwin is, she has so much information out there that is super valuable to us parents, health professionals, teachers, and anybody who is in the space of really looking after the mental, physical, social well being of our kids. So until next time, please jump over to my website at www.angelalockwood.com.au where you can look at all the different Parent Masterclasses I have coming up over the next 12 months. And the March Masterclass is very much focused on helping your kids to love playing outside again. Thanks for joining me, I'm Angela Lockwood. And until next time, enjoy.

Thank you for listening to A Kid's Life Podcast. To stay up to date on all the new episodes please subscribe to all the places where podcasts are found. If you want to learn more about my teacher and parent programs, please go to www.angelalockwood.com.au. Until next time, slow down, have fun and take care of our kids.